📍EEA: The Art of Relationship-Driven Sales with Nancy Zare

RJ Redden:

Yeah. Can you hear me, Nancy?

Nancy Zare:

I can hear you.

RJ Redden:

Oh my god. I hate this so much. It's, sometimes my camera acts up or it's wave. I don't know. Anyway, I'm gonna be trying to get myself on camera here. But for those meetings, the podcast, you know, hello. you know, get your goggles tightened, because we are here with Nancy Zare. Nancy is amazing. And Nancy, it just we she and I got together, and it was just like magic because we We believe in so many of the same things about relationship driven sales. my friends, if you're tired of the pitch laps in your inbox, if you're tired of, getting, yeah, getting all those emails, none of which ever apply to you, if you're tired of all of that boring, boring stuff. relationship driven sales is your answer. And Doctor Nancy's there, will be able to guide us in some of that today. Thank you for coming on with me today, Nancy.

Nancy Zare:

Oh, my pleasure, RJ. I as you said, it was magic. And, this is gonna be a magical session.

RJ Redden:

It really is, especially if I'm off camera. so can you Can you give us, give us the business? Who do you who are you? What do you do? Tell us everything.

Nancy Zare:

Oh my goodness. Do I start with the fact I was born a collegist. I was. I didn't know it at the time, but my interest in behavior has, has been there ever since I can remember. And, and, I back door it into selling. I'm gonna be candid and frank with people. I had no interest in doing sales. growing up or as a young adult, but the government paid for my education. I do have a master's and a doctorate from Boston College. And, I was happy to receive the handout, but it meant that I had to learn how to implement mental health services in the workplace. which seemed like a good match for someone in psychology. What I didn't discover, RJ, until I graduated is that you're gonna have to sell a program before you can implement it. And I think that's exactly what faces so many of us smart caring service based professionals. We studied our occupation. We learned a particular skill. and what a rude awakening to find out that we can't really do what we love until we do what we hate, which is the marketing and sales.

RJ Redden:

Oh, you're so right on this. Nancy, I mean, most of the folks that I talked to, they would just much rather. Got it, you know, get it through referrals. Get it through word-of-mouth. Get it through anything, but marketing and sales because it is such a turn off.

Nancy Zare:

It it's so true. We share we share a similar, clientele, right, These are people who don't wanna blow their horns. They're not into self promotion. They don't like that hype in that, you know, blah blah blah boom that seems to be characteristic of how most people market and sell their services. And because we're more, maybe have more humility, or perhaps because, we don't like that hype. this is why the marketing sales piece is daunting. and why we shy away from it and are looking for other solutions than to talk to people.

RJ Redden:

Anything but talking to people. anything but talking to people and feeling like I'm blowing my own horn and worse, not knowing when to stop, not knowing when to listen, not knowing any of that because if I had one client, someone times, say, it's like you're having a great conversation with somebody you're getting along, you're having lunch, and then you get ready to have a sales conversation. And all of a sudden, you're standing shivering on the high dive board, and the cameras are watching. She spoke about it like that much of a switch. and I feel I feel that's more common that we then we even know.

Nancy Zare:

Yeah. Again, I did not have any aspirations growing up to enter sales. you know, I I I love psychology. hence, understanding how to market or to to understand buyers in the psychology, that interested me, but to actually sell people, you know, which I thought would be manipulation. I thought it was twisting people's arms, you know, because that was the stereotype of the used car salesman. Or think of Willie Lomen, you know, and these are these are the sorts of things that I I was aware of, which is why I just pushed against the idea of being in sales. It seemed beneath me, seemed, you know, again, contradictory to the values that I held.

RJ Redden:

Contradictory to the values. I do wanna talk about that. because that seems to be, that seems to be the thing that my when my marketing and sales do not align with my actual values, everything's out the window. I can't do anything. and I I assume you meet a lot of people like me. who just, you know, I can't move a product if I don't believe in it. And I don't know how to think about all of this because seem so braggy.

Nancy Zare:

It's so interesting. You should say that earlier today, I have a group coaching program, and one of the members of the group was telling me about some struggles she has. She actually is hired to, buy, someone else to represent them and to get sales on their behalf. And so she but but she didn't have enough of a belief system and enough of a passion for what this person, you know, for what she was doing. And you know what sales is? It's really a transfer of energy. So if we're shy about tuning our horn, if we're shy about what we're offering, The other person is picking up on that, and then they say, well, yeah, I don't there's no reason to go forward.

RJ Redden:

Yeah. The other person is picking up on that. It happens to you more than I mean, it happens more than you think. Yeah. And I wanted to come back and just talk about one one of the things you you you hit on there, and that is sales is actually more simple than you think. It really is. You you know, it's a transfer of energy. It's not. I need to memorize. this in there. You don't have to do the things that you have to do. sales is much more difficult for that.

Nancy Zare:

Yep. I know you're breaking up a little, so you may wanna get off video again because you're there's a lot of hiccup being going on, but I I do understand what you're saying that, yeah, sales is a transfer of energy. And it's a matter of what energy are we transferring? when you're over the top and you're full of hype, That's not the energy you wanna transfer. When you're too meek and too self effacing, that's not the energy to transfer either. There's a certain balance, which is, I call it posture. And when I first heard this term, RJ, was actually in another context people were talking about having posture and, and that's what made them excellent at selling. And, you know, I I wanted to emulate it, but what was this posture thing? And, now I understand that posture is a strong belief in 3 things. Yourself, your product and your company. So when you have a strong belief in the value you bring, because the sales is really about value. Right? We're exchanging values. You have money that's valuable. I have a skill or resource or something that's valuable. And so there's an exchange of value taking place, but I have to value my value. You know, I have to feel that's what posture is. It's it's recognizing deep inside that what I bring to the table has value.

RJ Redden:

Yeah. And that part about your company too, I was this just happened to me just, you know, probably about a year ago, But my team, you know what? They're beautiful, but they sometimes make mistakes, okay, because they're human. Yeah. I don't have an army of robots working with me. Well, I do, but this is a different conversation. I do have human team members, and they are filled with humanity in love. And sometimes they make mistakes, and we ended up losing an account. and, and to be, you know, to be honest, that person probably wasn't right for us anyway. but we ended up losing the account, and I had a I had a huge sales loan back to that. And I didn't know why. because I was like, no. I mean, we've got amazing things. We do an an amazing job. Most people absolutely love us, not everybody. But later on, it was like, oh, when I get on a sales call, I am I am transferring the fear that we might not be able to accomplish this to the other person. And they love me, but they wanna wait every time. so it's like you got to believe in your company.

Nancy Zare:

Yeah. Yeah. It's a three full belief, you know, about your company, your product, and of course you. And, of course, usually, if you're a solopreneur, you and the company seem to be the same thing. but not really. Even if you call your company by your own name, it really does have its own persona, its own flavor. Right? it it yes. You're there behind it. You know, when you bring yourself to it, but your company does stand for itself along with who you are.

RJ Redden:

Yeah. It really it really does, gosh, I'm loving this conversation because so many people approach me, Nancy, and they are just, you know, it's just they they don't wanna be salesy. They don't wanna have to sell. They don't wanna have to put themselves out there in in any way that that would put them out there as, oh, hey. I think I'm a hotshot, so you should come listen to me. The thing that I really I really hope we get across to the audience today is you can be a good person and still win in business.

Nancy Zare:

Yes. Absolutely. I that's my passion, and it probably is yours as well, RJ. You know, my passion is to help that smart, caring, service based professional. You've invested in your occupation. You love what you do. Yet, your calendar is not full. and, you know, you're struggling maybe financially because, you know, the solar neural life is fraught with all sorts of challenges. you know, and but if I can help you gain the skills of sale selling, in a in a way that's ethical and aligns with your value so that you're yourself. You're not some sort of script that you, you know, or a marionette and you pull the string and, you know, all comes the words. that's I'm trying to help you be genuine, but at the same time, know your value. Present your value with authority, with posture so that you transfer that energy to the potential buyer that this is something that they want.

RJ Redden:

Yes. Yes. Because at the heart of it, you know, I read this once and I went, duh. Why didn't I know this? people make decisions on emotion and back it up with facts.

Nancy Zare:

Exactly. Exactly. it and it's interesting. People buy for their reasons. not yours. They buy it for their emotions, not yours. And one of the biggest mistakes that is made in in selling to someone is that we have a one size fits all approach. So if we purchase something based upon information and facts and statistics and, you know, figures and so forth. we then feel that that's what we need to present to the potential buyer. And it may or may not align with who they are and why they're making a lying decision. And as you say, you know, there there are different we are wired differently. for those who, of course, we know people are different, but we don't really stop and think about that when we're communicating with someone. We have a tendency to project our style and our thought process onto that other person as if that's the only way to be. I can't tell you how many times RJ. I've heard people say prospects and clients, you know, that, well, the person should have her. This was the way it was you know, like, that's how they're supposed to be. No. They are gonna be their way, and we need to adjust to them.

RJ Redden:

We do. We need to adjust to them, which brings up, if you're if you're a follower of the of the of the show, you know about the rules of Epic engagements and rule of Epic engagement number 32. One size fits all fits no one at all. we need to we need to customize to them. And here's the thing. you you and I talked well, pretty frequently, wait, we and we've we've talked about, you know, type how do you stand out in a world of AI and carbon copy copy and everything else. And the thing is what you just said is the secret answer to that. What you just said, let's adjust to them. The folks that are able to adjust to their clients in the next 5, 10 years, those of the bullet are gonna be making money. That's what I think. I did a little rant there. I'm sorry.

Nancy Zare:

Yeah. And it doesn't take 5 or 10 years to make the adjustment. It can be very quick. again, especially the people that I'm working with with once they grasp the understanding of, okay, there are 4 different ways that people are actually biologically hardwired to think and communicate and make decisions. It let me identify what that prospect style is Now if I speak the values, which is very authentic, it's not violating, you know, anything. It's not manipulating them. Let me speak their language. And when you do, that's when the door opens to a strong relationship the trust bills, the sales resistance drops away, and it opens the door to doing business together. That's the key in a nutshell.

RJ Redden:

that is the key. You know, getting that door open, and it doesn't, again, the sleazy tactics, you can you can shove that door open, but you're gonna end up with an unhappy person. and maybe a chargeback, which is not fun. you know, I mean, you can shove that door open, but it's never ever worth it. And for me, whenever I've used those those tactics, you know, and I have in the past, unfortunately, sometimes resorted to those types of things. It's never it's never done me right. It's just never done me right. Yeah. It's worth taking the time, I think, to figure out. How are we gonna get this door open together? How can you and I both pull on this handle?

Nancy Zare:

and again, you know, when the door opens, it may be to a new client, but it could be to a referral relationship, or it could be to some other kind of relationship. And we again, we don't have to think transactionally. It's about developing the relationship. You know, and I know that's what we are both about is, you know, developing relationships on on our terms, their terms, as opposed to this one size fits all.

RJ Redden:

One size fits all. makes me so angry when I hear it, Nancy. well, so let me, let me ask you this. We're the epic engagement adventure. We love to talk to, people about how they do engagement. My coaches are hungry to hear how you engage your audience. whether that's presale, during the sale, post sale, how do you when you've grabbed when you've got their attention, how do you engage your your audience?

Nancy Zare:

So there are three things I'm gonna share with you that are the foundation principles for what I teach and do. the first is always ask for permission. Now I'm working with people who don't wanna be pushy aggressive and salesy. So when you ask for permission and you're polite throughout this the conversation that you're having with people and they consent then you never have to worry that you are annoying them, bothering them that, you know, you're being pushing. That's principle one. Second principle is to speak without a script, to speak, you know, naturally and conversationally. And that you you can laugh and say, oh, that's easy to do, but, actually, there are some real tricks for how to speak in a conversational manner. as well as, knowing that it you need to guide the conversation. It it it's not a free for all. You're not just winging it. There's a direction to the conversation. So that's principle 2. And principle 3 is, again, to adjust what you say to match the prospect's personality or buying style. And so how do I do that before I have any communication with someone? I always look them up. I've not met this person. Maybe they're on my calendar, and I I don't know them personally. but I will go and look up a LinkedIn profile, a Facebook profile, their website, wherever I can find them, on the web. and I look for things like their photo, and I look for the what they have written about themselves. because it's both the photo and the words they use will give me clues as to how this person is wired as, you know, to in terms of their style. So that's that's how I engage with people. I start with knowing what their style is, and then I adjust. And and RJ, it's as simple as do I write dear somebody? High somebody? Hey, or I just dive in. And I know that sounds funny to be that picky about how you you know, start a conversation, but you know what? It matters. There are people who are more formal. There are people who just are bottom line. They're people who are warm and friendly. You need to know what that style is. And, again, it's no skin off my, you know, knows here to go ahead and adjust myself with that small little word.

RJ Redden:

And It, again, it makes all the difference in the world when you care enough to speak someone's language. you know, it's, it looks like a small thing. there's no coach out there who, you know, stands in front of 10,000 Zoom screens, you know, and, you know, holds a party and make of $1,000,000 in a weekend that'll tell you something like that. But let me tell you that's the way that people like us, heart driven people, That's how we make it in the world. That's how we succeed in the world is by you know what? I know that this person is gonna enjoy a little bit of an informal hello. you know, or I know by looking at this person's stuff, you know, I I can't wait for people to learn more about this system as for permission speak naturally. And there was a last thing.

Nancy Zare:

I just what you say to match their style.

RJ Redden:

adjust what they say to men, what you say to match their style. People, you need to dig into this thing. And, we do, we do have something for you that will help you do just that Nancy, would you like to go into what the likability assessment is?

Nancy Zare:

Yeah. So the name of my, overall system is called unlikeability. That like with an a in front of it. It's not about popularity. It's about having your prospect. The other person feel and sense and think to themselves. Wow. You get me. We're alike. Hence, it's called alike ability because it's a skill that you can learn. And the 5 steps to a likability is to recognize the 4 different styles to know your own style because we tend to sell the way we buy. the third is how do I diagnose the other person dial within a quick minute. Yep. The 4th is now to use the language that, you know, aligns with them matches them. And the 5th is, guess what? There's something in everybody's style that will rub people the wrong way. I need to know what I have to rein in. what I need to be mindful of. So those are the 5 steps. And step number 2, which is know your own style. Socrates said, know yourself. Well, I have a quick little 5 minute tool, scorecard that will allow you to know what your style is. when you are making a buying decision as well as when you're in the seller's position. so that will help you understand yourself better. there, along with that, knowing what that style is, it will also give you a brief description of that style. its advantages as well as, you know, that that part that might be something that rubs people the wrong way.

RJ Redden:

Exactly. I can't tell you how powerful it is. It's like it's having the secret key. When you have this information about both your own personality and but with about somebody else's It's like if you walked up to four people and they all spoke a different language, and they didn't speak yours and you refused to speak anything but English, You get four people walking away. but if you can say bonjour to 1, and, you know, I, of course, I didn't prepare for this, so I have no idea what -- We,

Nancy Zare:

you know, I think, yes, there are many different ways to say hello. and to greet people. So this is exactly the the right analogy. You need to speak the language of the other person. Even if it's just a few words, It's surprising how you will capture their heart and their minds so that they will want to continue to to relate to you.

RJ Redden:

Well, in the other the other secret ingredient of of, you know, this a likability assessment that you've put together and offered so kindly to everybody, Listen y'all. I got a link in the in the little comments here. Hit that link. I'm telling you. The other cool thing about this is when I started using a system, I started recognizing that actually 80% of the people who you know, got on my list in some way or or in my tribe, were already the the right quadrant. They were already, you know. And it was like, oh, I don't need to know how to talk to everybody. I needed to I need to I need to re, you know, kind of recraft the program so that I know that this is really speaking to this quadrant of people. And that's the deal.

Nancy Zare:

I'm so glad you said that because to me, that's one of the best uses of this material because most people try to be everything to all people and, of course, no one responds. But when you know who who that personality style is that you wanna speak to, and you have the language, the words that will resonate with them. you become an irresistible magnet so that they want to raise their hand and say, who are you? You're like me. I wanna work with you. Yep.

RJ Redden:

That's that is the real power of some of these, you know, this system that Nancy uses the real power of it is it's I hate to say this, but it's like it's like cutting through all the bs. It's like cutting through all of the, you know, the things that you're supposed to do and just cutting right to the heart of the matter, cut to the chase. That's probably what I should have said. But Whatever. My people are no they know me. They love me anyway. but it's cutting right to the chase of the thing. I I used to say when I started bots, I used to tell people It's like skipping to the 5th date. The good stuff is already going on. you know what I mean? We don't have to go through all the formalities of everything else because if I know how to talk to you and you want that kind of connection, we can go from here. We can skip the first four. Oh, man. Nancy, we're gonna have to have you again clearly. And maybe even as a special treat when my camera's working, but, but, yeah, I mean, we're really gonna have to have you again because, you know, I wanna dig into, you know, I wanna I just wanna dig into several things from you for you with you. it's all fascinating, and it's all it all leads up to a way that people who are heart driven and don't want to sound fake or be alienating. It's all a system of how people like us can win. We can make money and we can serve well, and we could win. And I wanna thank you for being here. You were amazing.

Nancy Zare:

Well, thank you for having me. And yes, even though you weren't there physically for me to interact with, your questions were outstanding, And, I appreciate your drawing out, you know, my best material.

RJ Redden:

Oh, hey. Anytime. It's not hard. You didn't make it hard. Well, well, epic engagement adventure family, that's, gonna wrap it for us this week. Next week, keep your eyeballs peeled. there will be, an event on masking AI. I'm doing that event on Wednesday. at 1 o'clock, find it over on LinkedIn. it's gonna be a party. It's a free event, and we're gonna talk about coaching and AI and what to what to do, what to avoid in some tools, maybe. So come catch that, come hang out with me And, and yeah, thanks for listening. And I will see you all in a